diff --git a/Mage/src/main/java/mage/abilities/Ability.java b/Mage/src/main/java/mage/abilities/Ability.java
index 4621d104feb..31dee95d241 100644
--- a/Mage/src/main/java/mage/abilities/Ability.java
+++ b/Mage/src/main/java/mage/abilities/Ability.java
@@ -504,6 +504,17 @@ public interface Ability extends Controllable, Serializable {
     MageObject getSourceObject(Game game);
 
     void setSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(int zoneChangeCounter);
+    /**
+     * Initializes the internally stored Source Object ZCC value
+     * to be equal to the source object's current ZCC.
+     * <p>
+     * If the source is an entering permanent, then
+     * the ZCC is set as if the permanent had already entered the battlefield.
+     *
+     * @param game
+     * @param force Update only occurs if stored ZCC is zero or if force is true.
+     */
+    void initSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(Game game, boolean force);
 
     int getSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter();
 
diff --git a/Mage/src/main/java/mage/abilities/AbilityImpl.java b/Mage/src/main/java/mage/abilities/AbilityImpl.java
index 65198348e02..ad735b98e74 100644
--- a/Mage/src/main/java/mage/abilities/AbilityImpl.java
+++ b/Mage/src/main/java/mage/abilities/AbilityImpl.java
@@ -272,9 +272,7 @@ public abstract class AbilityImpl implements Ability {
         game.applyEffects();
 
         MageObject sourceObject = getSourceObject(game);
-        if (getSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter() == 0) {
-            setSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(game.getState().getZoneChangeCounter(getSourceId()));
-        }
+        initSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(game, false);
         setSourcePermanentTransformCount(game);
 
         // if ability can be cast for no mana, clear the mana costs now, because additional mana costs must be paid.
@@ -1664,7 +1662,7 @@ public abstract class AbilityImpl implements Ability {
     @Override
     public MageObject getSourceObjectIfItStillExists(Game game) {
         if (getSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter() == 0
-                || getSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter() == game.getState().getZoneChangeCounter(getSourceId())) {
+                || getSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter() == getCurrentSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(game)) {
             // exists or lki from battlefield
             return game.getObject(getSourceId());
         }
@@ -1703,6 +1701,27 @@ public abstract class AbilityImpl implements Ability {
         this.sourceObjectZoneChangeCounter = sourceObjectZoneChangeCounter;
     }
 
+    @Override
+    public void initSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(Game game, boolean force) {
+        if (!(this instanceof MageSingleton) && (force || sourceObjectZoneChangeCounter == 0 )) {
+            setSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(getCurrentSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(game));
+        }
+    }
+
+    private int getCurrentSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(Game game){
+        int zcc = game.getState().getZoneChangeCounter(getSourceId());
+        // TODO: Enable this, #13710
+        /*if (game.getPermanentEntering(getSourceId()) != null){
+            // If the triggered ability triggered while the permanent is entering the battlefield
+            // then add 1 zcc so that it triggers as if the permanent was already on the battlefield
+            // So "Enters with counters" causes "Whenever counters are placed" to trigger with battlefield zcc
+            // Particularly relevant for Sagas, which always involve both
+            // Note that this does NOT apply to "As ~ ETB" effects, those still use the stack zcc
+            zcc += 1;
+        }*/
+        return zcc;
+    }
+
     @Override
     public int getSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter() {
         return sourceObjectZoneChangeCounter;
diff --git a/Mage/src/main/java/mage/abilities/decorator/ConditionalInterveningIfTriggeredAbility.java b/Mage/src/main/java/mage/abilities/decorator/ConditionalInterveningIfTriggeredAbility.java
index 67d2f1cce87..f975727ef27 100644
--- a/Mage/src/main/java/mage/abilities/decorator/ConditionalInterveningIfTriggeredAbility.java
+++ b/Mage/src/main/java/mage/abilities/decorator/ConditionalInterveningIfTriggeredAbility.java
@@ -131,6 +131,11 @@ public class ConditionalInterveningIfTriggeredAbility extends TriggeredAbilityIm
         ability.setSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(sourceObjectZoneChangeCounter);
     }
 
+    @Override
+    public void initSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(Game game, boolean force) {
+        ability.initSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(game, force);
+    }
+
     @Override
     public int getSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter() {
         return ability.getSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter();
diff --git a/Mage/src/main/java/mage/game/GameImpl.java b/Mage/src/main/java/mage/game/GameImpl.java
index 63147190c01..4b80538a332 100644
--- a/Mage/src/main/java/mage/game/GameImpl.java
+++ b/Mage/src/main/java/mage/game/GameImpl.java
@@ -1960,7 +1960,7 @@ public abstract class GameImpl implements Game {
     @Override
     public void addEffect(ContinuousEffect continuousEffect, Ability source) {
         Ability newAbility = source.copy();
-        newAbility.setSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(getState().getZoneChangeCounter(source.getSourceId()));
+        newAbility.initSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(this, true);
         ContinuousEffect newEffect = continuousEffect.copy();
 
         newEffect.newId();
@@ -2159,18 +2159,14 @@ public abstract class GameImpl implements Game {
             // countered, or otherwise responded to. Rather, it resolves immediately after the mana
             // ability that triggered it, without waiting for priority.
             Ability manaAbility = ability.copy();
-            if (manaAbility.getSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter() == 0) {
-                manaAbility.setSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(getState().getZoneChangeCounter(ability.getSourceId()));
-            }
+            manaAbility.initSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(this, false);
             if (manaAbility.activate(this, false)) {
                 manaAbility.resolve(this);
             }
         } else {
             TriggeredAbility newAbility = ability.copy();
             newAbility.newId();
-            if (newAbility.getSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter() == 0) {
-                newAbility.setSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(getState().getZoneChangeCounter(ability.getSourceId()));
-            }
+            newAbility.initSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(this, false);
             if (!(newAbility instanceof DelayedTriggeredAbility)) {
                 newAbility.setSourcePermanentTransformCount(this);
             }
diff --git a/Mage/src/main/java/mage/game/stack/StackAbility.java b/Mage/src/main/java/mage/game/stack/StackAbility.java
index a880c666afa..f83a90a5697 100644
--- a/Mage/src/main/java/mage/game/stack/StackAbility.java
+++ b/Mage/src/main/java/mage/game/stack/StackAbility.java
@@ -673,6 +673,10 @@ public class StackAbility extends StackObjectImpl implements Ability {
         ability.setSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(zoneChangeCounter);
     }
 
+    @Override
+    public void initSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(Game game, boolean force) {
+        ability.initSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(game, force);
+    }
     @Override
     public int getSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter() {
         return ability.getSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter();
diff --git a/Mage/src/main/java/mage/players/PlayerImpl.java b/Mage/src/main/java/mage/players/PlayerImpl.java
index 73ec0e6b91e..80127259644 100644
--- a/Mage/src/main/java/mage/players/PlayerImpl.java
+++ b/Mage/src/main/java/mage/players/PlayerImpl.java
@@ -1306,7 +1306,7 @@ public abstract class PlayerImpl implements Player, Serializable {
         SpellAbility ability = originalAbility.copy();
         Set<MageIdentifier> allowedIdentifiers = originalAbility.spellCanBeActivatedNow(getId(), game);
         ability.setControllerId(getId());
-        ability.setSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(game.getState().getZoneChangeCounter(ability.getSourceId()));
+        ability.initSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(game, true);
 
         //20091005 - 601.2a
         if (ability.getSourceId() == null) {
@@ -1332,7 +1332,7 @@ public abstract class PlayerImpl implements Player, Serializable {
                     spell.setCopy(true, null);
                 }
                 // Update the zcc to the stack
-                ability.setSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(game.getState().getZoneChangeCounter(ability.getSourceId()));
+                ability.initSourceObjectZoneChangeCounter(game, true);
 
                 // ALTERNATIVE COST from dynamic effects
                 // some effects set sourceId to cast without paying mana costs or other costs